Author Topic: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?  (Read 9536 times)

TeamAstroBot

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2015, 09:20:32 am »
Which actually raises another question. At what point during a rebuild process, mid-event, SHOULD a bot be required to go through safety again?

A few examples:

Sharp edge covers, weapon locks, etc...
If any new sharp edges are generated or weapon locks are altered, they need to be checked again.

Failsafes
If controls systems elements are changed (radio gear, escs) they should be checked again to ensure that they're working as intended.

Weight
Significant changes to the bot may call for a re-weigh, and at a minimum the builder should ensure they check the weight, as if the event is using SPARC rules there are clear penalties for exceeding the weight limit and re-weigh policies.

There is definitely a point to be made that safety could be done as often as after every match - electronics could easily be damaged from the fight and not fail safe, or even replacement electronics may not fail safe.

As for the weight, I tend to weigh my bots after any changes that might cause it to go overweight, I'd assume other builders do the same. The scale is there for the whole event and it doesn't require someone to police it when the organizers are already very busy. If someone thinks the bot is overweight they can always say so after the match and get it checked out, I don't really see a reason for any extra re-weighs beyond this.

I agree with Kyle and Zac on this one, I trust the other builders and think the honor system is ideal.


I agree completely that the honor system is ideal as we all have trust in each other and for lack a better phrase, I think of you guys as part of my family.

There is definitely a point to be made that safety could be done as often as after every match - electronics could easily be damaged from the fight and not fail safe, or even replacement electronics may not fail safe.

This is the part that has me worried, I feel should be addressed. Too often, in the heat of the moment you're too worried about just getting your bot working after being ripped apart, that Failsafe doesn't even come up.

FingerTech

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2015, 03:42:41 pm »
Regarding re-weighing, here are the SPARC policies that are in effect at compliant events:

Weight Verification:
A robot may be re-weighed at any time during a tournament at the request of an event official or judge. The time required to verify that the robot is still within the legal weight limit will not be counted against the robots guaranteed time between matches. In the event that the robot in question is less than 5% over the weight limit they will need to be made underweight prior to their next match. If the robot is in excess of 5% above the weight limit they will forfeit their prior match and will need to be made underweight prior to their next match. If repeated infractions occur in during the same event the robot will be disqualified from the event. If a robot has been modified since its last match the team will be responsible for ensuring that any repairs or modifications done stay within the weight limit. In the event that an event official calls for a re-weigh immediately following a match (prior to either robot returning to the pit area or having any work done to them) both robots will be weighed to confirm that they are within the weight limit. If one of the two robots is overweight it will immediately forfeit the match. If both robots are found to be overweight the original match result will stand and both robots will be required to be brought below the weight limit prior to their next match.
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roybrox

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2015, 10:40:27 am »
Sorry to add so late to the discussion, but at what point do "modules" or modularity become an entirely new robot?

I'm re-designing a beetle right now and I realized that I could make the weapon system modular from an overhead bar to a vertical drum, but this would pretty vastly change the appearance of the bot and about 2/5's of it by weight. The majority of the chassis, drive system and armor would be the same and the entire electrical system would remain exactly the same. I'm mostly asking because of how different the two configurations look in CAD, it almost appears to be an entirely new bot even though the slim majority of the components are the same. If I had a modular drive system as well, I would essentially have two complete bots I could mix and match parts to.

The closest practical example I can think of is Nyx at 2015 Motorama who had a bolt on weapon system that used exclusively the ax attachment after the lifter burnt out. Mike did a great job in making the system explicitly modular; Nyx would work as a box bot without any weapon at all. However, if for some reason he made his 4wd system modular with treads or a shuffle system, would that still be bueno? That is to say, if Nyx went in as a wheeled ax bot on one fight and a shuffle lifter on another, would it be considered the same robot?

I know the rules and the spirit have been pretty well spelled out in previous posts, but I just want to make sure no one'll get mad if I show up to a fight against a Trilobite kit with him expecting a horizontal spinner and getting a face-full of drum instead.
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Lucas Grell

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2015, 12:20:33 pm »
I think if it was clear beforehand that you designed your bot with that in mind, most people wouldn't have a problem with it.

MikeNCR

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2015, 12:30:19 pm »
More than that, when you're having the bot inspected things like modular assemblies have to be declared and checked (typically events will at a minimum require the heaviest configuration be weighed, and have the right to re-weight the bot at any time should they so desire) so as long as that happens you're well within the bounds of the rules.