Author Topic: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?  (Read 15981 times)

Infernaltank

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 12:03:23 pm »
another scenario:

someone has a shockbots/botbitz kit with a 3d printed body. it gets wrecked after fighting a spinner, but the person also has spare body. can they use it?

MikeNCR

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 12:16:03 pm »
another scenario:

someone has a shockbots/botbitz kit with a 3d printed body. it gets wrecked after fighting a spinner, but the person also has spare body. can they use it?

Again, I'd say yes so long as the functional parts from the original bot were transferred over to the new shell.

Koolaid64

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 12:44:49 pm »
I would say that if the spare "parts" can pass safety independently if the original robot that would be the point when it would be considered another robot.

MikeNCR

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 01:50:51 pm »
I would say that if the spare "parts" can pass safety independently if the original robot that would be the point when it would be considered another robot.

I'd exclude common change parts (batteries and rx mainly) as they're trivial to change out on most bots.

teamsandman

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 04:48:50 pm »
Hypothetically, with a saw or midcutter that takes out the frame first, then hits the lipo, there could be nothing left to salvage. If this was the case, and the person had a full set of extra waterjet parts, extra ESC, extra motor, and extra wheels (completely reasonable parts to have), could they just assemble all those parts together for the next fight? Maybe at most the only thing to transfer over would be a weapon blade...

MikeNCR

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 05:22:56 pm »
Hypothetically, with a saw or midcutter that takes out the frame first, then hits the lipo, there could be nothing left to salvage. If this was the case, and the person had a full set of extra waterjet parts, extra ESC, extra motor, and extra wheels (completely reasonable parts to have), could they just assemble all those parts together for the next fight? Maybe at most the only thing to transfer over would be a weapon blade...

I'd say it was fine as the parts were clearly intended as spares for the original robot as opposed to a full second bot. The line really seems to be having it be a trivial amount of effort to swap in the new parts. (I'd define trivial as needing to only put in change parts like batteries or plug in things like receivers)

Once you're at the point of putting a bunch of things together to get it running again you're pretty clear of the line in my opinion.

TeamAstroBot

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2015, 12:57:23 pm »
Here is where I am at with it. How is showing up to an event with 10 of the same bot ready to go considered an unfair advantage, when having a boat load of money, thus access to better materials & equipment is not?. If someone can afford to build 10 bot clones, and they all pass safety, how is that any different than being able to afford making 1 bot out of 3" billet titanium? Using the claim that having 10 of the same bots is an unfair advantage because they can afford it, doesn't hold up in my book. After all aren't we all looking for a competitive advantage? (batteries, material, design). Point is we're not about to create essentially a robot version of a salary cap are we?

I will agree that it should go against moral values to show up with 10 ready to go clones when you know that everyone else will be showing with 1 ready to go bot with spares to swap out as needed. But what if your intent is to have a disposable bot design (along with the disposable income you would need)

I personally do not see the harm in allowing people to have clones in the event their bot gets utterly destroyed. Where I would have an issue with it would be if they alternated the bots between fights as to reduce the wear and tear of the event.

In my opinion, this is a fine line topic that is hard to define.



Which actually raises another question. At what point during a rebuild process, mid-event, SHOULD a bot be required to go through safety again?

MikeNCR

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2015, 01:06:41 pm »
Which actually raises another question. At what point during a rebuild process, mid-event, SHOULD a bot be required to go through safety again?

A few examples:

Sharp edge covers, weapon locks, etc...
If any new sharp edges are generated or weapon locks are altered, they need to be checked again.

Failsafes
If controls systems elements are changed (radio gear, escs) they should be checked again to ensure that they're working as intended.

Weight
Significant changes to the bot may call for a re-weigh, and at a minimum the builder should ensure they check the weight, as if the event is using SPARC rules there are clear penalties for exceeding the weight limit and re-weigh policies.

Don Doerfler

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 01:24:20 pm »
i know in some events in 15lbs they require you to have a weight check/failsafe for every match
So i think it would be good to check the weight regardless at least before they are placed in the arena
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 01:26:17 pm by Don Doerfler »

TeamAstroBot

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2015, 03:36:43 pm »
I guess where I am going with this is, that after the initial safety, each builder is on their honor... Is this not something that should be policed? (it's sort of a catch 22 I know, but that's my point)

Koolaid64

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2015, 04:01:09 pm »
I trust you guys.

Koolaid64

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2015, 04:43:20 pm »
its combat robots. if we didn't have spares it wouldn't work.
go right ahead

Infernaltank

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2015, 06:08:34 pm »
yeah that was kind of an obvious question.

zacodonnell

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2015, 09:03:10 pm »
Logistically, allocating a person to police this kinda thing at an event is an unlikely thing to happen.  We have a couple things going for us with the honor system that ends up being the only practical approach:
1. There isn't really anything to win other than respect. This is especially the case relative to the investment required to compete. Seriously, nobody is going to run in the black on this stuff

2. People who do this are generally already a bit "special". With that seems to come some kind of desire for honesty and sportsmanship, at least that has been my experience.

3. like kyle, I trust you guys :D

-Zac

seangcxq

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Re: At what point do "spares" become a new bot?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2015, 05:49:54 am »
Which actually raises another question. At what point during a rebuild process, mid-event, SHOULD a bot be required to go through safety again?

A few examples:

Sharp edge covers, weapon locks, etc...
If any new sharp edges are generated or weapon locks are altered, they need to be checked again.

Failsafes
If controls systems elements are changed (radio gear, escs) they should be checked again to ensure that they're working as intended.

Weight
Significant changes to the bot may call for a re-weigh, and at a minimum the builder should ensure they check the weight, as if the event is using SPARC rules there are clear penalties for exceeding the weight limit and re-weigh policies.

There is definitely a point to be made that safety could be done as often as after every match - electronics could easily be damaged from the fight and not fail safe, or even replacement electronics may not fail safe.

As for the weight, I tend to weigh my bots after any changes that might cause it to go overweight, I'd assume other builders do the same. The scale is there for the whole event and it doesn't require someone to police it when the organizers are already very busy. If someone thinks the bot is overweight they can always say so after the match and get it checked out, I don't really see a reason for any extra re-weighs beyond this.

I agree with Kyle and Zac on this one, I trust the other builders and think the honor system is ideal.