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Author Topic: Sportsman Rejuvenation?  (Read 2425 times)

FingerTech

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Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« on: March 14, 2015, 02:12:58 pm »
Travis7s:
Seeing as how there was no fights at all last event, it seems like the Kilo class has died.
Any ideas on how to get it back?

DBM123:
Get Dirk to buy some kitbots drive motors for Roadbug? :)
Not sure why no one else is building kilobots. :(

Travis7s:
For me, I like the build the wackier bots and the only competition for the last couple years  is TA and RB,  both power lifters that I don't have any interest in fighting anymore.

DBM123:
I like wacky robots too. The actuated saw bot version of TA was my fave but saw blades were deemed illegal or something? I can't remember. The spinning colson bot was cool too but never got to fight.
I'm also not a fan of typical lifter bots. I think they lack creativity (although I've never seen a lifter that works how TA's works). TA was built the night before an event which explains why it is a simple lifter.
I'll bring back Miner 2049er for a future event.

Travis7s:
The rules limit any spinners. Lifty TA abided by the speed limit but then I think we waived the speed limit at the time because cutting robots seemed feasible, but TA was more of a 'kachunk-kachunk' type and trying to regulate cutters seemed hard so we disallowed toothed blades. I think you switched to an abrasive disk, but when that wasn't effective TA morphed into the current design? Seemingly there is no footage of that TA?
I see now that the new SPARC ruleset is even stricter as it specifies an RPM limit instead of the old SFM limit. It does only mention 30lb class so not sure how that applies.
Whatever their reasons are, nobody else is building any. If memory serves correct this is basically how it has been recently:
- no fights
-Samurai vs illegal (spinner) multibot
-Pinhead vs Roadbug
-Roadbug vs Triple action has been the only action for a few events I think. The last time we had more than 2 bots was probably Spectrum 2013.

Mike J (MikeNCR):
On the SPARC rules, there are specific allowances for cutting weapons-
Specific weapons of very low mass or very low moment of inertia (MOI) may be allowed at a higher rpm. The intent of said weapons should NOT be to deliver large kinetic hits. But rather cutting, drilling, scraping, ect.
All weapons operating above the 400 rpm limit MUST be submitted to the event organizer for approval during the registration period.
This allows things like saws and drills. The 10" circular saw on Spanky runs at around 4000rpm and the chainsaw is in the 1000rpm range.
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FingerTech

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 02:17:56 pm »
Could we incentivize the class?
-Prize money would work if there were lots of bots entered, but that's a circle of life that has to begin somehow else.
-Some sort of awesome trophy or prize for the winner?
-Discount entry fees for bringing a sportsman? (Not sure that's a good one)
-Mandatory entrance?  :P
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MikeNCR

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 02:28:09 pm »
Could we incentivize the class?
-Prize money would work if there were lots of bots entered, but that's a circle of life that has to begin somehow else.
-Some sort of awesome trophy or prize for the winner?
-Discount entry fees for bringing a sportsman? (Not sure that's a good one)
-Mandatory entrance?  :P

No fees to enter the Sportsman class so long as you're entering at least one other class could work.

FingerTech

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2015, 05:28:41 pm »
But then the prize money would have to be taken away from the other classes.
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MikeNCR

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2015, 05:33:32 pm »
No fees would mean no prize money. Maybe instead a trophy that the winner keeps till the next event. The Kilobots Cup or something.

zacodonnell

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2015, 11:10:28 am »
I like the idea of the sportsman bots competing for the "coolest sportsman" trophy.  I think even the SPARC judging guidelines are a little unusual for the sportsman class because Damage is still one of the categories even though extreme damage is not the design goal of most of the machines.  It's not a "no-damage" class, but making 1/3 of the judging criteria based on something that is so severely limited seems unusual.

A travelling trophy sounds like a cool way to offer an incentive to people who build for the class with the real objectives of the class in mind.

-Zac

FingerTech

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2015, 08:59:13 pm »
Good point about the judging.  What would you suggest?
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Badnik96

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2015, 11:52:40 pm »
Style, perhaps?
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thesaxmachine

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 11:22:47 am »
My excuse is I was building many other robots.  I'm still trying to get the 4 bar lifter design going.  I need to learn solidworks.

ACME

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2015, 01:17:24 pm »
Or effectiveness/effective use of weapon? I feel like most weapons used in sportsman classes could score points for use of their weapon, even if it isn't necessarily spinner-esque damage.

Kaldonis

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 04:27:19 pm »
I want to build a kilobot and I am therefore resurrecting this thread. Let's continue the discussion!

FingerTech

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2015, 04:48:31 pm »
This post will serve as all the rules for our 1kg Sportsman class.  I'll start with the SPARC base and add what we've decided on for extras.  Can anyone point me to where we wrote down those extras?  :P

Code: [Select]
4.2. 30-lb Sportsman Class .  A 30-lb robot may be entered in the “Sportsman” class if it complies with the additional rules in this section.  Any 30-lb robot may be entered in the “standard” 30-lb class.
  4.2.1. Intent. The intent of the Sportsman Class is to encourage novel designs and driving ability.  The focus of this class is fun and creativity, not the annihilation of your opponent.  Robots must  comply with both the letter and spirit of these rules to qualify for this class.
  4.2.2. Active Weapon Required.  Your bot must include an active weapon or device. These include but are not limited to lifters, hammers, clamps, spinning weapons (within limitations, see below), etc. Weapons such as a fixed spike that require the movement of the bot to function do not qualify as active weapons.  (within the limitations specified in 2.2.3)
  4.2.3. Limitations on Spinning Weapons.  All devices rotating more than 360 degrees must not exceed 400 rpm. Weapon rpm will be measured by tachometer prior to the start of the event. To remain within the spirit of this class, you should not attempt to create the most destructive spinning weapon possible under the rpm limit. Specific weapons of sufficiently high mass or moment of inertia (MOI) may be limited to lower rpm or disallowed by officials if they deem the weapon to be too destructive. Officials may require submission of specifications including motor, voltage, gearing ratio, weapon weight and dimensions prior to the event.
    4.2.3.1. Specific weapons of very low mass or very low moment of inertia (MOI) may be allowed at a higher rpm. The intent of said weapons should NOT be to deliver large kinetic hits. But rather cutting, drilling, scraping, ect.
    4.2.3.2. All weapons operating above the 400 rpm limit MUST be submitted to the event organizer for approval during the registration period.
  4.2.4. No Wedges.  Sides of a bot within 1 inch of the floor must be perpendicular to the floor. If your bot can drive in multiple positions (i.e. inverted), your bot must comply in each of these positions. Unusually shaped bots that do not meet the letter of this rule, but that do not contain wedge-like surfaces may be allowed on a case by case basis.
    4.2.4.1. While a large plate extending from the bot that is flat or nearly flat to the floor such as in the bots Alf or Zok may satisfy the rule as described above, it will also not be allowed. This or any other static device which has the purpose of removing the opponent's wheels from the arena floor is not allowed.
    4.2.4.2. You must also use care when designing your weapon so that the weapon does not violate the no wedge rule. A weapon which requires a small slope below 1 inch or a small plate that is flat to the floor in order to function will be allowed at the discretion of the officials.
    4.2.4.3. Example: A lifter, flipper, or clamping weapon.
    4.2.4.4. However this must be kept within reason.
    4.2.4.5. Example: A lifter with an actuated wedge-like surface that extends for a significant portion of the bot's width will not be allowed.

  4.2.5. Lifting, Flipping and Grabbing Weapons.  An articulated “spatula”, parallel to the floor is allowed, provided that it complies with the “no wedge” rule. (3.2.4)
  4.2.6. Excessively Destructive Weapons.  Weapons deemed too destructive by virtue of their mass, MOI or other characteristics may be further limited or disallowed at the discretion of the event.  Please contact the event organizer concerning your design to avoid problems.
  4.2.7. Standard SPARC Rules Apply. Unless otherwise stated, all other standard SPARC rules will apply. This includes walkers and their weight bonuses. However, a walker that uses the weight bonus for a spinning (or other) weapon that is too destructive will be disqualified.

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Travis7s

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2015, 07:25:00 pm »
Looking through Delphi here are the latest:

The intent of the Kilobot class is to encourage novel (yet still destructive) designs that would get destroyed in other weight classes

Kilobots are allowed to have a wedge on one side of their robot and all other sides must have "adequate" ground clearance

Kilobots may not use toothed weapons but may spin abrasive cutting weapons in any orientation

There is no more restrictions for a spatula now, such as length or width

A spatula is considered your 1 wedge, ie roadbug cannot have his lifting spatula up front and a hinged wedge on the back.

No restrictions on spinning anything that is completely round like the abrasive disk or a rubber wheel.

The active weapon must be intended to be effective and I think that it must be in working operation before the match starts or otherwise your bot is DQ.







Kaldonis

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2015, 12:07:11 pm »
Kilobots may not use toothed weapons but may spin abrasive cutting weapons in any orientation

Can we just go with the SPARC rule for this instead, i.e. the purpose of the weapon must not be to deliver large kinetic hits, but a sawblade would still be OK, etc

Travis7s

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Re: Sportsman Rejuvenation?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2015, 02:24:41 pm »
Sawblades at 30lb class do not cause kinetic hits, but they do at insect the insect level. (Hyper Ninja for example)

We actually did allow saws originally a few years ago, then we argued over it, and then we banned them.