Author Topic: Canadian Carnage Robotics  (Read 4237 times)

rcjunky

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Canadian Carnage Robotics
« on: February 21, 2019, 02:43:30 am »
After taking with the resident sparc forum master (Zac) at Moto I have figured out how to post pics in a convenient way to share them here for those not on facebook. I'm a big fan of embedded pics on forums and it is in fact possible. I figured I'd try to give a bit of a recap of my 30sc I just finished for motorama 2019, and a bit of a summary on the other bots to start things off.

We'll start with the current fleet and go from there.

First off my 150g fairy, IntensiTi. This all started as a way to get a pit pass for Robogames 2018 to help with running Lucky/Ziggy. This all fell through for a few reasons including school and Battlebots s3, but ended up completing it for the SCRC Canadian Nationals in September 2018. As a machinist by trade this was my silent protest against 3d printing more or less. I set out to make an all machined 150g bot that uses real hardware to bolt it all together. With the exception of glueing in the drive motors this kept true to the completion.

It runs a 1407 2700kv motor direct drive in the weapon, 30:1 botbitz drive motors, botbitz power switch, tiny esc's on drive, RotorX 30a esc all powered by a custom 2s 240mah battery. The red screws are all aluminum, the chassis is 7075 aluminum, 0.5mm ti top plate and front armor, 1mm ti bulkheads, wheels are 27.5mm slot car wheels. I have about 10 hours in to the pair of chassis I made so I can see why clicking print on a 3d printer has its place in this class.



Mostly complete cad including the Minor Threat disk profile. Originally was going to use the Fingertech profile since it also looks pretty cool.


Chassis getting the final edm cut done removing the chassis from the material used to hold the part


The bare chassis after 3 set ups on a mill and another on a wire edm machine. Not a simple part for sure.


Early test fit of the electronics, its all very snug. You'll see a 10a esc in there in this pic, but hard issues with brown outs with the high current draw weapon.


This is the disk before heat treat and wire edm cutting. Adding the step to make it easier to assemble adds a lot of work to the part. Its only so the disk is flush with the motor can when centered between the weapon bulkheads


« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 03:03:07 am by rcjunky »
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2019, 03:01:48 am »
Up next is the 1lb bot, AbsurdiTi. Its a direct drive horizontal spinner using a custom hub motor. Using the Fingertech bearing blocks as the beginning of the project, its 1" thick inside the top and bottom plates which are 1mm ti. It has a lot of influence on Freds 1lb bot, The Cuban, but with the fancy hub motor. Its currently on its 3rd weapon motor revision and finally seems to work really good most of the time. Spinning a 6.5" 100+g bar at 10k+ rpm is always good times. Electronics are Fingertech 22:1 silver sparks, tiny esc's, sk3 2822 weapon motor (1090 or 1275kv, I've used both) RotorX 30a or afro 20a weapon esc and a 450mah 65c 3s battery



The current main hub for the weapon motor


The other side with the bar. 6, 6-32 screws in shear seems to hold up plenty fine with the center bore on the bar locating it


Weapon shaft before holes and heat treat are done


Pretty snug inside, its very small


The weapon lock/wheels up devide is pretty fancy as well like I generally do
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 03:06:10 am by rcjunky »
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2019, 03:06:41 am »
InsaniTi is what I consider my first competitive bot, a 3lb beater design with a welded ti chassis. I was talking with a friend and next thing you know it looked mildly reasonable to do this so I ran with it. The result is a pretty over the top design that works really good. That said I can't say I'd recommend doing this since its a full time job keeping it all together. It runs botkits 22mm gear motors with robot power wasp esc's, propdrive v2 2836 motor, ztw spider 40a weapon esc all off the 1000mah 4s bolthv lihv pack. Its just enough capacity to run 3 mins if needed, which rarely ever happens. The beater is about 12oz.



Chassis before welding with the fixture to keep it square


Lots of ti, including the 3/8" shaft. It was a nightmare to end tap those holes.


A quick pretendo bot of the layout. I've since gone to a small weapon motor then in this pic


« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 02:08:58 pm by rcjunky »
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2019, 03:07:04 am »
So Llama Sheen is my latest creation. Its been by far the most time and money intensive build, using a lot more suppliers then my previous builds. This far I've basically always done all the fabrication myself, the exception been the cutting and welding on the ti chassis for InsaniTi, but I used 3 different shops for this build, and still made some parts in house. I think I used 5 part suppliers as well compared to the usual 3 or so.

This bot I decided to run all brushless  motors. I went with 4 propdrive 3530 1400kv motors for drive paired to 36mm wang boxes. This required custom shafts stepped down to 1/8" for the pinions, and redrilling the motor plates to bolt the motors in. I ran drive on 4s so I ended up running a 1000mah lihv battery to 4 60a aerostar esc's. This is not enough capacity and I do think that 40a esc's would be enough but the cad said I'd be so under weight I just went with the 60's. This used a separate circuit from the weapon. On weapon it uses a sk8 5045 240kv motor paired to an Andymark sport 57 16:1 gearbox (the HD version came out less then a week after I ordered this, but I didn't have space regardless as it is longer) powered by the sk8 vesc 4.12 on 8s, a pair of 850mah lihv 4s packs. I figured this thing would have tons of power and ran it current limited at 30a and flipped 30lb with ease. After the gearbox was another 7.2:1 worth of reduction to have a final speed of around 60rpm, so about 1/2 second to do the the full travel. For power switchs, I could have gone with Fingertech switches like some of my other bots, I was shown what I call the Scott Switch before it was publicly available and elected to give it a try. They're smaller then a whyachi ms-05 switch, far cheaper, and should be capable of similar current handling (although as of now hasn't been tested). Its also very flexible with its directional tabs. Its basically a giant version of the Fingertech switch.



After a few months of work I had the cad complete enough to start making parts. This is the final cad but wasn't actually this complete when I started sending out files. I ended up needing to modify some stuff last minute to make everything fit due to how tiny this thing is.



Now yes, I'm a machinist by trade and could have made these parts myself, but the timeline I had to be ready for motorama was getting short and we were swamped at work making machine time not available. This led to me outsourcing to China. I contacted a few shops that others have used and lets just say the cost was basically the same as material and my time at 1 1/2 time working, so me working OT due to the work load at work and paying china or doing it myself worked out to the same, but China was much faster. From quote to parts in hand was about 3 weeks. Here's all the parts just mocked together with a few other bits I had on hand. They made all the aluminum seen in this pic.



The next box to arrive is all the hardox. The wheel guards, outriggers and forks are 1/4" AR400. This was outsourced because I don't have waterjet access so my best option is to wire edm them, and that simply wasn't gonna happen and having them cut worked out to about $50cad, it was a no brainer. I then sandblasted them and black oxide coated them to make them pretty. This was also an excuse to learn the process as we do it at work frequently but I've never been shown until now.





The custom motor shafts and weapon assembly shafts are all custom made of 17-4 stainless. Some of the smaller sizes are available pre hardened which is a huge upgrade to those running outrunners on insect spinners, but I elect to get it annealed as its much cheaper (and easier on tooling when cutting keyways, grinders don't care like the stepped shafts) and I then heat treat it myself. It basically just means throw it in an over for 2 hours at 900*f and your done. Super easy and no distortion like other steels that require quenching.



The gears were custom as well, I machined the blanks, wire cut the keyways and gear profile, and sandblasted them. Yes, theres some messages/inside jokes on both main gears :P







The weapon motor/gearbox assembly with the custom mounting plate



and the drive motor/gearbox/hub assembly. Long story short I had an issue with the model of the gearbox which led to me machining all the sides of it to make it 1.417" square when they come in at 1.500". My oversight and cost me a lot of time, frustration and rework.



Heres how the electronic layout looks without the switches or running any wires, just components stuffed in, yeah, this is where I realized what I was in for...



and the weapon batteries are bottom loaded basically under the main lift geartrain



« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 12:55:33 am by rcjunky »
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2019, 06:30:38 pm »
Motorama 2019 has now come and gone, and all I can say is what an event it was. This year I brought the little 150g IntensiTi without touching it since the Canadina Nationals in September, and the all new 30lb sportsman, Llama Sheen. Llama is my biggest, most expensive, most complex build to date, yet was the least prepared I'd ever been going to the event. By the time it was through safety I figure I had about 8 hours of work done to it, and that was only electrical. I managed to get all the mechanical work done before packing up and making the 10 hour drive.

IntensiTi was basically on the back burner and ended up going 0-1, getting to the arena 10 seconds late for its second fight making it a forced forfeit. I never had the time to make some needed tweaks so in its first fight its only issues quickly surfaced. It will be getting the needed love in the future but it may not be until later this year if I go to the SCRC Canadian Nationals again this year.

Getting Llama Sheen through safety working correctly was a huge relief. Going in to the first fight with no practice and never lifting anything I had pretty low expectations. It ended up working really good. With the lifter current limited to 30a (so about 1000w) if had no issues lifting 30lb which was a relief. It can easily be cranked up to double that but don't know what the shock of using basically on/off switches to go up and down. You'll notice in the first and last fights the drive dies at the end of the fight. I planned on using an 850mah pack for drive and it wasn't enough in the first fight. I got a 1000mah into it and it wasn't enough in the last fight. Made it long enough to not get counted out, but give the opponent some free shots. This is one of the areas I'll be revisiting for next event. On top of having 9 fights, I was meant to also fight Beeeees before Aeriform but he had to forfeit after having a few issues in the previous fight and couldn't fix it in 20 minutes which was all we had.

vs Buzzkill
https://youtu.be/WQmemobk_1w?t=10806

vs Conduit
https://youtu.be/WQmemobk_1w?t=22592

vs Major Axe E Dent
https://youtu.be/WQmemobk_1w?t=27672

vs True Grit
https://youtu.be/pWpzgCwqjzk?t=6438

vs Wedding Gift
https://youtu.be/pWpzgCwqjzk?t=11354

vs Buzzkill
https://youtu.be/pWpzgCwqjzk?t=17297

vs Flip Special
https://youtu.be/pWpzgCwqjzk?t=19922

vs Ralph
https://youtu.be/pWpzgCwqjzk?t=21978

vs Aeriform
https://youtu.be/pWpzgCwqjzk?t=28464

Overall I had a blast and had some excellent fights. You'll definitely see more from Llama Sheen moving forward.


Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

zacodonnell

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 03:42:12 pm »
I really enjoyed the name of this bot, and it worked really well.

Magneato is carrying 2x 2300 5S A123 packs on board in parallel. I burn through about 2500 mah in a fight. Of course it also draws 150A on spinup... I'd love to drop to a single pack but I have nightmares about running out of juice - it's such a frustrating way to lose.

Looking forward to when you get this dialed in.

-Zac

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 06:23:29 pm »
The name wasn't my idea (I have 0 creativity) but its so good in so many ways. It all started as a way to fuel a troll and just kept escalating :P Once I write the build post I reserved for it, you'll see some of the silly things I integrated to keep things fun. A select few had/have big issues with it apparently being a wedge and not a sportsman in there eyes.

I have dedicated weapon packs on the lifter that only take 50-150mah/fight so capacity wise its got plenty with the 850mah packs, but its current limited to 30a and I know it hits that when digging for gold in the floor. I plan of turning the current limit up even more and that'll really be hammering those packs current wise but its such a low duty cycle they should be fine. Drive is the issue and there really isn't much space for a bigger pack, its so tight. I don't think its even remotely possible to fit a123 cells in it if I wanted to run franklin. I'm going to need to do some playing around to figure out what I can actually fit with some chassis mods to get a bigger pack in there, I'd like 1600mah but may need to settle for 1300mah unless I literally put the batteries in the lifter arm (which I believe I can do)

Other then more battery capacity on drive and turning up the lifter, it needs more position control at the bottom of the travel. Once I have a bit more of a plan and time (yay big robots) I'll probably be hitting you up for some assistance. The current vague plan is use an arduino to basically have a soft start (to pre load the gear train before dumping all the amps)as well at some kind of sensor (break beam, potentiometer or encoder) to slow the lifter at the bottom 1/4" or so of travel so I can slam it down and be close, then hold down so it'll creep down the rest of the way at a controlable speed. I think all of these need to be done so I can really turn it up to 11. I think improving the lifter will also make the drive battery capacity an even bigger issue as I'll be spending less time parked adjusting the lifter height.
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

TeamAlreadyBroke

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 01:14:47 pm »
We also had issues with people complaining about Aeriform and Flip Special being wedge bots and not Sportsman compliant robots. There are at least two points that make that pretty funny though:

1.) Each robot has at LEAST 0.125" (if not 0.375"+ on Aeriform and inches on FS) clearance at all times on the wedge portions.
2.) The first point of contact on both bots IS the weapon.

If you rewatch Flip Special and Aeriform's fights, there were only a select few times where the wedges even came into play like in the match of Llama Sheen and Flip Special. IIRC you drove over Flip Special like a ramp for a monster truck!

However, in all honesty I could see issues with passive tines meant to immobilize that reach out passed the weapon. To each his own though, as long as it is 100% for functionality for the weapon to work or stability, I don't see there being too much of a gray area about the whole thing.


rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 10:35:25 pm »
With all the mess of facebook over it, I concluded the people complaining (non of which compete in the class) basically think its against the spirit of the rules to build a bot with the sole purpose of winning. The rules are also quite clear what kind of wedges are and are not allowed, so I don't get why people hate on legal wedged features. I actually did a rough sketch of a more wedgy yet totally legal configuration but elected to not post it to avoid the mess it would create. At the end of the day we're all here having fun and don't have any issues with either of your teams sportsman entries, other then they're so hard to beat :P I felt those 2 fights were the closest I had all event, and it was a blast. I sent you a pm here a while ago btw
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2019, 12:56:59 am »
Just updated the post to include Llama Sheen. I know I missed a bunch of stuff but I do have more pics on my team page on Facebook (@canadiancarnage) but feel free to ask away any questions you may have. Figured this could also help create some conversation here.
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2019, 12:21:15 am »
So I managed to make it through round 1 of Motorama's insane registration process so I'll be running Llama Sheen and AbsurdiTi at Motorama 2020 in Harrisburg, PA. I'll be revising the hub motor in AbsurdiTi making it the 4th revision, but some changes have to be made. After finishing 3rd in South Korea and winning BotBrawl, its definitely close to where it needs to be. Llama will also see some slight tweaks but after some interesting lifter gremlins at BotBrawl, I'll be focusing on getting that sorted out. With a 60a current limit, I might be hitting low voltage cut off with the very small dedicated lifter packs.
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

rcjunky

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2020, 07:19:34 pm »
This weekend I moved about 5 hours away from home which means all my moto prep had to be done already. This makes it the first event I've ever been totally ready for well ahead of time

AbsurdiTi has treated me well in 2019 including getting 3rd at the bigger combat event in South Korea and winning the last bot brawl event. With this success I think this could be the last set of revisions for it to make it just a bit better. I redesigned the weapon hub to use bigger bearings that should not only be more durable but be more rigid. I got these made by EngineeringNetwork and they turned out beautiful. I probably slightly over toleranced the bearing and rotor bores, all being 0.0005" or smaller, but the parts all went together beautifully. Dealing with Dave was a breeze and met the needed delivery date after I dropped the ball in getting these made. Getting them anodized really gives them a quality look and I look forward to seeing how they work.




Since I was getting some waterjet cutting done I decided to try a different weapon bar material and got 2 different designs cut. I still had to grind them to thickness to keep the weight reasonable but they sure look good. I opted to try a single tooth design as well as a similar design to what I've previously ran. With over 130g of spinning mass at well over 10k rpm I figured single tooth would be the way to go to get the big hits and I made the symmetrical bar a bit lighter for when faster spin ups are needed. I made the last bar a bit soft to make sure it didn't fail given I only made 1, but these are right around 50hrc so should take hits from ar500 weapons better as A2 in the low 40's didn't like that much.



The last change is the frame itself. The new weapon assembly needed a couple small changes to the frame but otherwise it's basically the same as the last version. I got a bunch of spares ready to go so I think it's just about all ready now. With all these revisions and given how the last couple events have gone I've got high hopes for motorama, but when you show up to the biggest event in North America nothing is guaranteed.



Llama Sheen has also gotten a slight bit of attention. I've been testing a lot to make sure turning it us is safe so it's got well over double the power now. I've also tweaked the fork design with the biggest change being to the tips. I'm hoping the wider tips will prevent them from doing woodworking once the floor gets beat up a couple fights in. Even though I finished 2nd last year this year won't be easy. Lots of teams have really been steeping it up so I'm sure winning rounds won't be easy. I've got a lot more time on the bot now (I finished it the morning of the first fight last year) and like the tweaks so I think it's all ready to go. With the big MaxAmps pack in drive I definitely shouldn't be losing the first fight for running out of battery like last year. Llama is now a year old after a year of design/building, so I hope that these slight tweaks really make it shine after having 0 time on it before its first event.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 07:22:49 pm by rcjunky »
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

TeamAlreadyBroke

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2020, 02:16:35 pm »
I can't wait to see AbsurdiTi in action! That thing is definitely a monster.

Good to hear you were able to get Llama sorted out and done before the competition this time. Makes me worried for defending the title hehe!

We won't be doing anything to the Sportsmans aside from tuning the drive ESCs for once and turning Ascend up to full pressure finally now that we got the bugs all sorted out. Well, I may add some more ground clearance for Moto too, but we shall see.

Good luck man, and see you there!

zacodonnell

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2020, 04:36:47 pm »
Have you made any changes to Ascend since Franklin to deal with the return spring issue?

-Zac

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Re: Canadian Carnage Robotics
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2020, 11:50:46 pm »
Yes, we successfully completely changed the setup and replaced those springs with straps and used the same springs Aeriform uses further back on the lift arm. The leverage isn't the best, but it returns in a acceptable amount of time and didn't have a single hangup at Robot Ruckus. Ascend finished second only to Aeriform at Robot Ruckus (Flip Special had a multi-way tie for 3rd.)

My only real fear is that once it has full power that the straps may not hold, but only time will tell. I should have turned it up for RR but as you know, one step at a time... we want reliability for Motorama!

Here is our YouTube if you want to see some fights:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3VQoI91AV_jGf1zSJ5FMzw

(Sorry Andrew!)

- Dominic