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Author Topic: Team Ambient Chaos  (Read 8064 times)

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2016, 12:27:17 am »
I had been thinking about going for the simplest possible way of getting the drummette made, but I guess if there is one part that I should make sure I get made the right way, this is probably it. I definitely don't have the tools to make it myself, or heat treat it.  Any suggestions on where I could go to get it made and heat treated? The only place I have heard of for this type of thing is the Whyachi shop.

Team whanton2

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2016, 10:17:42 am »
look in your local listing for a metal working shop or probably more likely a fabrication shop. They will have connections to others in the industry that will include heat treating. Just call and ask.

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2016, 09:12:31 am »
The reason that I have liked using this building set for my first couple of bots is that I can get the chassis of a bot 75% done in a single afternoon with minimal tools once I have all of the parts in my hands.



So Enraged Erector Set is now well on its way to being fully built.  All I have to do now is get a sheet of titanium to make into the wedge, talk to a local machine shop about making the mini-drum, and make a permanent electrical harness (I only stuffed my bench-test harness into the chassis to take it for a test drive).  I should be able to have it all ready for Motorama '17, but I guess that since all of the beetleweight slots for the event kept filling up before I could get to them I'll just have to bring it to the event and see if anyone no-shows so I can get in.

rcjunky

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2016, 07:28:59 pm »
my work can machine and heat treat the disk all in house, and being north of the boarder and the terrible exchange it should be a really good price for you (like 30% or more less then the quote to convert to usd). They've got 4140 on the rack as well if thats your maerial of choice and should be more cost effective then s7. www.eipmfg.ca
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

Great Hobbies- Canada's leading retailer of radio controlled models and related hobby supplies

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2017, 11:05:58 pm »
As it seems to be the trend at the moment, I thought that I would chip in my own pre-Motorama status report.

After Angry Erector Set had some electrical/control issues at Franklin Institute, I hunted down the problem to weapon startup causing the receiver to brown-out and reboot.  One quick upgrade to the weapon ESC later, and AES is ready to show what it's truly capable of. 

Since I was never able to get my in-progress 3lb bot registered, work on it ground to a halt as other things took priority.  I found a local machine shop that can make the drumette for me, and I have a new bending brake to allow me to bend metal for wedges, but I haven't gone through with getting the drumette made yet or ordering the titanium for the wedge.  Hopefully I'll get registered and get everything ready in time for Franklin Institute.

Ive even managed to spark some small amount of interest in combat robotics in my wife, she said that she is actually disappointed that she won't be able to come to Motorama with me this year.  While she might not be about to jump in and start designing and building her own bot, she was receptive to the idea of me building a bot for her to drive at an event, so I might even put something together and get her entered as a driver next year.

Badnik96

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #80 on: January 18, 2017, 12:42:07 am »
a few beetleweight spots opened up once all the people that didn't send paperwork were dropped. i'm sure you could bring it to moto and compete with it if you pay the entry fee.
TEAM IGNITION
FireArrow (Antweight) 23-11
Nocturne (Beetleweight) 5-10 (Retired)
KnightShade (Beetleweight) 0-0
Landshark (Mantis) 1-2

Pennbots 2014 and Bot Blast 2014 antweight champion. Bot Blast 2013 Best Driver and antweight third place.

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2017, 08:50:35 pm »


I have made some more progress with Enraged Erector Set.  All I need now to have a complete bot is to finish the titanium wedge, add a master power switch to complete the wiring harness, and get the drummette made.  I am going to go talk to one or more of the local machine shops within a few miles of me tomorrow, and if they say that they can get my drum made by the end of next week I just may be able to get my beetle entered into Motorama after all!

As far as the drumette design goes, I have one question for the more experienced builders/machinists.  If I'm attaching the drummette directly to the can of my weapon motor, would I be better off keeping things tight and press-fitting it to the motor, or would it be better to go with a looser fit and use epoxy to hold the two together?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 09:32:32 pm by AmbientChaos »

zacodonnell

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2017, 09:46:08 pm »
I don't build bots in this scale, and I haven't done exactly what you're shooting for here, so take this with a grain of salt :)

A press fit will help it be more balanced, but an epoxy fit will be easier to pull off. The balance is going to be important at the high speeds you're targeting or your bot will be hard to control. Remember the can is aluminum and not very thick, so you could easily crush it if you don't get the tolerances just right. You aren't going to want much interference between the parts and you are going to need a very rigid setup to do the pressing.  If you only have one weapon motor and such little time, you might be better off with the looser fit / epoxy solution.

-Zac

rcjunky

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2017, 12:21:45 am »
The motor in drum weta set up is slip fit and glued in with shoe goo, and has slots so you can wrestle the motor out if needed.
Andrew Burghgraef
Canadian Carnage Robotics

Great Hobbies- Canada's leading retailer of radio controlled models and related hobby supplies

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2017, 07:45:34 am »
So it sounds like using adhesive to hold it on is the way to go (particularly with trying to get things done at this late stage), and I might not even need something as strong as epoxy.

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2017, 11:19:19 pm »
After a few hours of work, the only things that Enraged Erector Set needs to be functionally complete is the weapon blade.  There are still a few finishing touches I would like to put on it tomorrow, but otherwise it is good to go.



The weapon blade should (hopefully) be done and ready for me to pick up on Thursday afternoon, so hopefully I can get it mounted and balanced Thursday night.  I'm certainly going to be cutting it close!  If all else fails, I'm considering 3D printing a solid PETG plastic blade just so I can have something to put in the competition.  Now I just hope they will let me in as a last minute addition!

I got my titanium wedge and a backup wedge made, but I think that I underestimated how difficult it would be to work with titanium.  I started out treating it like aluminum and just trying to cut out the basic shape of the wedge quickly, and I soon learned how much harder titanium gets when you get it hot, so slow and steady is the better course.  I still managed to blunt a few (admittedly cheap) drill bits before I fully learned my lesson, but I finally manged to get everything cut and drilled just the way I wanted it.  Then all I had to do was bend the first side, bend the second side, and *SNAP*.  The side of the wedge snapped clean off, so I had to start all over.  But in the end I managed to get it made, so now I have two (mostly) complete bots ready to  compete at Motorama!


AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2017, 12:14:10 am »
I got the weapon blade from the local machine shop today and got it mounted to the motor, so now Enraged Erector Set is complete!



While it came out more-or-less okay, the bore hole at the center of the blade wound up being a bit off-center.  The result is that I can't put the throttle above about 25% before the vibrations really start to make it lose traction.  Thankfully it sounds like I might have one more day to try to get it balanced before it has to compete.

Does anyone else have any experience/tips for trying to balance a blade like this?  My approach so far has been to place the blade with a ball bearing holding it up on either side, give it a spin and let it come to a rest, and then shaving some metal off on the side that stops on the bottom (always the same side so far).  Is this the proper way to do this, or is there a better way?

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2017, 10:31:52 pm »
Motorama has come and gone for this year, so it's time for the post-mortem.

Angry erector set managed 1 win and 2 losses, and the electrical issues from its first event have been fixed, so I was in control the whole time and performed much better.
The first match against Commander Doom went in my favor, but the weapon blade was barely hanging on by a thread by the end of the match. 
For the second match against The Cuban, he came over before the match to pick out a blade that was longer than mine to use for the fight.  The result was that he was able to take off first my weapon blade and then my wheel before I could to much to him in return.
In the third match against Odium one of the first hits broke the gearbox for my right wheel, leaving the wheel inoperative and leaving me stranded, but when the wheel fell completely off a little bit of magic happened.  With the blade dragging me forward I suddenly found that I was more mobile with one wheel than I had been with two wheels.  It only lasted a few seconds before the blade came off, and I might have only gotten one hit off at best, but it brought a huge grin to my face while it lasted.  Now I have crazy ideas rattling around my head about trying to create a one-wheeled horizontal spinner a-la No Fly Zone where the weapon is the propulsion.   :o

I think that I learned several important lessons from these three fights that I can carry forward.
The weapon blade came off or nearly came off in every fight.  While the new clamping style of fingertech hub seems to be an improvement over the old set-screw style hub (in that it no longer comes off after the first hit), I think that it winds up that the metal is too soft so that each hit winds up enlarging the hole and slowly working the hub off of the shaft.
Instead of using the battle-tested Spark motors, I went with a pair of motors that were smaller/lighter in order to make the weight limit (an all-metal frame is not light).  The gear boxes wound up breaking on the first significant hit to the wheels, and eventually the front plate of the gearbox shears off completely.
The second fight bend the shaft on my weapon motor, and the third fight bent the mounting bracket for the motor.  I think that these parts just weren't meant to take these types of loads, so I need to look at doing a better job of channeling the forces from my own weapon directly into the frame instead of through the weapon motor.
I went with the titular aluminum extrusions because they were practically ready off-the-shelf to be a frame, all I needed to do was enlarge a few holes and bolt everything together.  I think that having an all-metal frame for an antweight was overkill, since it wound up leaving me without enough weight to put into the other necessary components as I should (like the drive motors).  Also, while I think that it serves reasonable well as a frame material, the two fights with the spinners showed that it doesn't fare well where it can come in direct contact with an unfriendly blade.
Overall I think that this is more than I can fix with a few tweaks to the bot to make it more competitive, so I think that I will either wind up making a large enough re-design that it will warrant a new name, or I will wind up replacing it with another type of bot completely.

Enraged Erector Set also managed 1 win and 2 losses, but I feel like it was more successful overall.
The first fight against Mombot went in my favor, but I feel like I could have performed better.  Because I went into the event with the weapon blade unbalanced, I couldn't put the weapon throttle above 25% before it vibrates enough that the wedge wouldn't get under much of anything, and I was experiencing some traction problems that I slowly learned to compensate for over the course of the match.
The second fight against Sparky was over in seconds.  It looks like his wedge was lower than my wedge, so he got in the first good hit, and this revealed a big flaw in my wedge.  I had countersunk the holes in the wedge to have flat-head screws that would be flush with the face of the wedge, but I didn't realize that the heads of the screws would be taller than the thickness of the wedge, so I wound up using button-head screws instead.  It turns out that these screws were holding on to practically nothing, so the one hit tore the wedge right off with no significant damage, and with the wedge and one wheel already gone I decided to tap out before he hit my now exposed battery or electronics.
The third fight against Wedge of Allegiance came down to the fact that he had a lower wedge that I did, and he did a good enough job of driving that I only got one or two chances to hit him from the side or back, otherwise his wedge just kept getting under me.

Overall I think that Enraged Erector Set did reasonably well, and the biggest issues with the current iteration stem from my rush-job to get the last few pieces built in the week before the event and can be improved on before it sees another event.  The weapon blade I'm hoping will be as simple as grinding one side down so that I can spin it at full speed without major vibrations.  The aluminum frame seems to be a much better fit to the beetleweight weight class than to an antweight; I still have a couple of ounces of leftover weight to play with, and some plans for possible ways to use it.  Once I fix the wedge so that I can use the flat-head screws as intended, the most vulnerable parts of the bot will be the wheels and the flat back section of aluminum extrusion.  I'm going to resurrect the style of wheel guards that I tried on Lapsed Pacifist to try to protect my wheels, and I'm going to add a strip of poly-carbonate to the back to make it more resistant to other spinners.  The wedge should be pretty good once I get it back to using the correct screws, I just need to sharpen the front edge so that I can do a better job of getting under other bots.  The weapon motor seems to have held up pretty well to the abuse of the weapon being used, much better than AES.  I already had two ball bearings to transfer force directly from the axle of the weapon motor to the frame, but I have a couple of ideas to reinforce the mounting of the motor and weapon arms to make it all as rock solid as I can get with an in-weapon motor without going to a more extreme overhaul of the weapon.  Finally, I believe that the problems I had with traction is actually that I had too much power.  I have motors that run at 1,000 rpm at 12V, but I threw in a 4S battery that jacked up the speed even further.  After the first fight I had the impression that my issue was that I was making too-large movements with my stick and losing traction as soon as the wheels started turning, so I turned the max throttle down to 75% for the later fights and felt like I had much more control.  Now I just need to decide whether I would be better off dropping down to a 500rpm motor, dropping down to a 3S battery, or just limiting the throttle in the transmitter.  In any case,  I look forward to getting the chance to give the bot another workout once I finish with the improvements.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 09:28:31 am by AmbientChaos »

FingerTech

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #88 on: February 27, 2017, 10:49:13 pm »
Hi!  The new Blade Hubs did that for a couple other people too so I have changed the small piece to steel to keep it from bending and making the bore larger.  So far it's held up well!
Kurtis Wanner
FingerTech Robotics

AmbientChaos

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Re: Team Ambient Chaos
« Reply #89 on: February 27, 2017, 11:52:01 pm »
Glad to hear it. I have a idea for a bot that just might be crazy enough to work, but it is based upon the blade hubs. I was worried about going for the idea due to the hubs popping of easily, but it sounds like it might be worth a try with the new hubs.