Events => North America => SCRC (Saskatoon Combat Robotics Club) => Topic started by: FingerTech on August 10, 2015, 10:35:49 pm

Title: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on August 10, 2015, 10:35:49 pm
From:    GuavaMoment   Jul-24 9:06 PM

*deep breath*

*blows off 4 years of dust*

Hello? Hello? This thing on? What's this "moved to SPARC" note mean? Screw it, let's go into the robot room for the first time in years and see what we find. (We find 6 years of crap and boxes and stuff) Seeing Battlebots again has really done a lot to motivate me. If it gets renewed, and opened up to lightweights, I am SO there. I even have a friend who lives in Orinda I never see that would be so down for going to Battelbots, and who would let me stay with. I'm finally back in a decent financial and free time situation. So let's look at what corpses I have lying around:

Limblifter's looking rough but easily fixable. New wheels needed, new side arms needed, but I think it's fine? The 60lb bot I've always wanted to build is a copy of this, so I should get Limblifter back in game shape for old time's sake.

Wizard Beard looks 100%, but wasn't a very good bot.

D...uh, + I think? I don't know where it's weapon is. Or how it got that way. It kind of always sucked too. So I think I need a new ant.

Papillion. Man, remember that thing? Travis didn't, he asked me if he could have the frame for it but couldn't remember the name. The frame's fine, but all the motors have twisted shafts. I'm pretty sure Greg was to blame for that.

Warcommander Turbolumberjack. Same deal.

Dexahedron looks pretty OK too. Good times.
So I imagine 6 or 7 years of neglect does bad things to batteries, right? I've still got a lot of crap to go through in the robot room, but I've been given a date of Sept 19, and I'm going to try real hard to make it.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on August 10, 2015, 10:37:45 pm
From:    NeedMoreRCs   Jul-25 12:59 PM
We were wondering if you were still alive. Welcome back!
From:    FingerTech Robotics     Jul-26 7:13 PM
Welcome back! Glad to see our relentless emails over the years have finally paid off. ;)
Seriously though, no one comes here anymore. We have our own board at SPARC:
Since you've missed a few events, I expect to see a dozen or two entries from you.

From:    Travis7s   Jul-28 2:11 PM
Limblifter should still be competitive, I think it really just needs modular attachments, sharp ones for fighting wedges, and defensive one for spinners.
Wizard Beard could still be good, I recall it being pretty slow as its main weakness. Again I would go with modular attachments.
One of the reasons I asked about Papillion was we stopped running the Mantis class a year or 2 after your departure, so there is not really any place for it or Lumberjack to fight...
We still talk about Dexa and how it took the huge chunk out of the wall. :P
Dirk's youtube channel (if you were unaware) has the latest footage of everyones robots, so thats the place to check out whats out there now...
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on August 10, 2015, 10:38:28 pm
From:    GuavaMoment   Jul-28 5:23 PM

I subscribed to Dirk's channel long ago, so I still see all the videos.

All the motors on Limblifter were coming loose from the gearbox. All of them. One of the motors is all but busted from that, but I've tightened everything up and I do have spares, so it should be good to go with little modification. Knowing all the gearboxes are fine is a big relief, what with seeing the state of the Banebots store right now. Where all the beetle motors at? The battery won't charge, and is probably a goner. I don't know about modular attachments for the front, I'd rather have one that works good against everything. I'm open to suggestions though!

All of my ants have underpowered drives, it's been an ongoing problem. Taking routine battle damage doesn't help. I haven't opened up the ants yet, but I think Wizard Beard's drive is unsalvageable. I have some old escaps that are heavy for an ant, but will fix that problem in a hurry.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on August 10, 2015, 10:39:12 pm
From:    Travis7s   Jul-28 6:19 PM

Beetle motors are kind of scarce in terms of variety.
The B16 were popular but kind of expensive and maybe not available anymore:
"1000RPMs" are probably the standard these days.  Although they are available on ebay.
"micah" motors are proven to be battleworthy and are very cheap on ebay...or not. Just took a look and now they are hard to find...
Just go back to tamiya planetary!
For attachments I mostly just meant a very low and sharp 'anti-wedge', and a more durable 'spinner killer' one
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 22, 2015, 11:29:24 pm
I didn't post a build write up like I used to on the old forums, and I suppose I ought to. It's nice having a kind of robot diary to look back on in 2021 when I decide it's time to show up to another event.  ;D

D+ is/was my ant spinner. I would always attach different weapons on the front each time, but the drive was always 50:1 copal gearmotors. I hated, hated the fact that I am just crap at building spinners. Blade hubs would fall off, or bearings woulds wear out or a million little problems would come up. I knew I could solve most of these problems by using brushless weapon motors like literally everyone else does, but I figured one more try couldn't hurt. I had a vision for the new D+ to be just all huge disk, kind of like Backlash used to be.

It turned out looking pretty much just like what I wanted it to. During rebuild I rediscovered how much I dislike the 50:1 copals. The output shaft has a press fit gear on it that wears out, and the motor tabs sometimes go, requiring you to pry open the end bell and resolder some wires to the brushes. I think I bought 4 of these ages ago and now only 2 remain functional. I had some problems with the scorpion ESC overheating due to the insanity of direct driving a weapon blade, but I fixed that by using a Banebots 12-45 ESC instead. As long as I could keep the weapon attached and pointed at the enemy, D+ might win a match or two?

D+ ruined a lot for me at Kilobots XXXI. Everything was fine at home but in the arena it wouldn't failsafe. The weapon would (when tx off) go forward for a few seconds, then reverse for a few seconds and repeat. I fixed it in my radio somehow, but in doing so undid all of my mixing settings. I wonder if there was actually someone else on that channel (75Mhz PPM) because that kind of failsafe behavior is just weird.

D+ vs Jeremy

Jeremy was pretty much a stock Viper kit, with 1/8" lexan front wedge. If all went went well I could break that. Due to the mixing being off nothing was driving the way it should, but I knew I could at least keep it pointed the right way long enough for a hit. The first hit did break a huge chunk of Jeremy's wedge, but also twisted the weapon shaft and the blade came off. I'm thinking "great, now I have to figure out how to push- oh wait Jeremy already pushed me out". Give Nathan all the credit in the world for that though, he drove the hell out of Jeremy all the way to a deserved 1st place in the Ant Rookies.

D+ forfeits vs Wizard Beard, my other bot.

So I learned some things. One, brushed weapon motors - never again. Brushless motors just give you such better mounting options, and it appears that brushless has evolved since I last was at an event. I don't think anyone broke a brushless motor this event, compared to people losing a motor every other fight back in the day. Two, I really need to get a 2.4 GHz radio. So I learned nothing revolutionary, just that I need to keep up with the times. I relearned I suck at building spinners, so to scratch that itch I might just take a good long look at that kitbots drum ant. It does look pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 23, 2015, 12:03:04 am
Wizard Beard was always meant to be a small Limblifter. A simple pushy wedge with a lifting arm. It's made from an old Inertia Labs ant kit, which I'm now sick of. The two big problems with that kit is that there isn't anywhere close to enough room in there to fit all your electronics, and that you have to glue the wheels on to the motor shafts. So my receiver is on top of the bot, right behind the lifting servo.

Wizard Beard vs Drum Roll Please

This is a match I should have won. DRP is a non-invertable drum spinner, which didn't seem all that dangerous if you were careful. It should have been a really simple fight where I just go in, get to the side and flip it over. The problem was that I used Wizard Beard to fix my mix settings on the radio that I erased when try to get D+ to failsafe. The servo I used was hacked for continuous rotation long ago, and I replaced the potentiometer with a variable resistor to be sure I could get it to center. This version of WB didn't allow 360 motion, but I never had a problem stalling the servo at home. But during the resetting my radio, I stalled the servo for a few seconds and this time it burned out the motor or servo guts or something. So I go into the DRP fight without the servo, or the lifting wedge. At least I did fix the radio settings. During the fight I have some trouble getting under DRP what with having no real wedge. I do get some good pushes in from what I remember, but can't get DRP to the push outs. Then he gets a lucky hit, I'm upside down, and can't self right with no wedge. Great.

Wizard Beard vs D+ (D+ forfeits)

I replace the broken servo (that could lift 3+lbs in the video) with a standard servo that doesn't have enough power to lift 1lb.

Wizard Beard vs Great Scott

Great Scott is a wobbly walker, with a spinning blunt cast aluminium butterfly thing for a weapon. It's all lexan, non-invertable, slow, has lots of exposed parts and the spinner isn't dangerous. The only thing it has going for it is that it's cool looking, and it's over 1lb due to being a walker.  I think I let it spin up so as to put on a show and in the first hit his spinner breaks and a knocker comes off. I push Scott around for a while. I can get under him easily, but don't have the power to flip it with the crap servo I have in it. I try to push him out of the arena, but settle for a hazard when the opportunity arises. A big chunk of Scott gets ripped off, and he taps out before I get a chance to do that again.

Wizard Beard vs Drum Roll Please Part 2

At least I get a chance to redo this fight! I am still able to drive better than DRP, and get a couple of small lifts in. Same story, with the good servo I would have won many times over. Luckily for me, during one of my push/lift attempts things work out so I can just....barely....slowly....tip DRP up and over. I win!

Wizard Beard vs Mark Who Works At Arby's.

Mark is an invertable undercutter spinner, so I have to hope the weapon isn't super powerful, and that I can get under him and push him around. I'm correct on both of these assumptions, but Mark gets the luckiest hit in I may have ever been unlucky enough to suffer. His weapon gets slightly airborne somehow and hits me directly on the receiver. Like, directly on the pins, severing all connections and mashing channels 6 thru 8 together. I see all the wires sticking out the side and new immediately it was over, I'm dead. Even though the rx still works, if this was any other event I'd be really bummed out at the damage it took. But since I need to replace all my receivers to 2.4GHz anyway, it's all good. WB ends up in 4th place.


There was a lot going on in that rumble with like 15 robots. I end up upside down which should have been correctable, but I can see my power LED is out somehow. Amazingly I think Metroid or someone hit the same place Mark did, because all my receiver connections were out again, along with some power wire from deeper down in the robot.

I think the Wizard Beard name might live on in the future, but I'm going to say goodbye to the Inertia lab kit. I'm going to try something more simple with my servos in the future.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on September 23, 2015, 02:56:14 am
I enjoy reading your event reports.  I miss a lot of fights and these are detailed enough to make me feel like I was watching.  :)

I wonder what radio that R2D2 was running.  I don't think there were many other RC units at the Expo, but we can't rule out channel interference.  I think you'll be much happier with the 2.4GHz stuff anyway.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: needmorercs on September 23, 2015, 11:15:52 am
R2D2 uses 2.4, I talked with the owner when he was at the car show.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 23, 2015, 07:33:02 pm
I should have asked myself, I had a bit of a show when they needed to tweak something literally in front of my table. Big honkin' SLAs in there.

Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Travis7s on September 23, 2015, 07:51:49 pm
Yeah, move on to the 2.4GHz and never look back, I had forgotten all about how 'radio problem's used to be a thing.

I have had very good luck with the OrangeRX line, (the heatshrink style rx) and especially since I upgraded to the T-Six tx.

Pinky used all Spektrum gear and the response time was horrible compared to my orangerx bots.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 23, 2015, 11:31:44 pm
So let's talk Limblifter. Clearly my most successful robot that wasn't two RC toys stuck together. At last event it had issues.
I learned (six years ago) that 1/8" garolite was no longer acceptable for the side lifting arms. And you can see that I die in this video for a few seconds a couple of times near the end. This had been happening during long fights for quite a while, but I didn't figure out why until rebuilding for this event. I tore everything down to retighten the gearboxes which had all come loose. Then during testing I find one of my Banebots 3-9 ESCs was really, really hot. I find out that one of the motors was drawing way too much current, making the ESC go into thermal shut down. That's why my drive stopped but the lifting arm still worked in the video above. Shortly after figuring this out the motor just died completely. There are no replacements for Banebots motors, so I had to replace all the motors will the "1000 RPM" beetle motor, which as it turns out was 100% a drop-in replacement. Also to be sure the ESC wasn't at fault and for that extra degree of safety, I replace them with 10A Wasp ESCs.

I now needed to make sure that the lifting plate never breaks again. I replace the side arms with 1/8" 6061 aluminum, and get the whole thing welded together. Noticing the side arms could still bend under a large force, I stiffen them with a 1/8" garolite layer. What used to be the entire side arm is now just the stiffener. Not to get ahead of myself, but this new wedge did not break, so mission accomplished.

Limblifter vs Pinky and The Brain
This was the fight where I realize all my mixing settings are wrong. This was a fight I felt I had a really good chance of winning, as long as I could drive properly. In a complete panic because I don't want to lose this I get a few minutes to play with my radio. I manage to find a state where up is right, right is down, down is left and left is up. So if I hold my TX sideways, it drives like normal. Except "lift" is now stick right. Ugh. The plan for the fight is to ignore Pinky as much as possible since it's the lighter, non-weaponed and invertable of the two and just go after The Brain relentlessly. I was still in a bit of a panic so it's getting hazy, but I remember I could outpush The Brain, and that its weapon (a smallish drum) wasn't too much of a concern. The Brain gets pushed out eventually and I spent something like a minute bashing against Pinky. Limblifter wins judges decision. I had a few gouges in the lifting wedge and it might have been bent slightly, but nothing major. This fight might have been the 2nd biggest grace from the robot Gods next to the time that 1/2 of 3D beat Hellrazer because I forgot to reset a switch on it, paralyzing half the drive.

As an aside, if I push a fully intact The Brain out, does that count as a huge amount of damage in a judges decision? As far as actual, real damage goes I probably lose that 6-0 or whatever, but if pushing out counts as damaging 74% of the multibot then do I win damage, like 4-2?

In the pits I find the lifting motor isn't working. The final stage planetary gears are all stripped, which has never happened before. Not a problem I have lots of spares for that. I fix my radio mix too.

Limblifter vs Broadside
This was another fight I knew I could win. I forgot that Broadside is now non-invertable, but even when it could drive upside down, without its magnets it's easy fodder to push where I want. I'm not a fan of big wide wedges, preferring my wedges to come to a narrow section, and with the sharpened spring steel I use, I knew I could get under Broadside easily. Which I do, much to the surprise of Travis or some other veteran watching the fight. So Broadside goes upside down in the first three seconds. It's not moving and I see Dirk through the arena looking very depressed as he throws his hands up. It's only at that point I remember Broadside can't drive upside down, so in the interest of having some fun and showing off, I go push Broadside into a hazard before I try for a pushout/wait for a countout. I flipped him over easily, I can do it again if I have to. After a couple of hits the hazard rights Broadside and he comes back at me. He got terrifyingly close to getting me pushed out, but I think I spazflipped over him into safety. I'm getting a little worried that I've made a horrible decision, so I make sure I'm in a safe place to get the wedge lined up. I do get Broadside flipped again and signal to the judges that I'm just going to take the victory at this point. Phew!

Limblifter vs Black Adder



So Black Adder. It's a drumbot with a smaller-ish drum about 2 or 3 inches long. I more or less fought that in The Brain, right? So same plan, go in relentlessly, flip it over, push it out. Now, no one can say I didn't do that first part. There may have been a small delay after the first hit which taco'd my lifting wedge pretty bad as I realized BA had much more power than I thought it did. But back in I go. Big hit. Back in I go. I'm losing bits after every hit. The lifting wedge gets taco'd REALLY bad. Then the non-powered arm comes out. Then a wheel goes. Then another wheel. Then the whole lifting wedge gets blasted off. (It didn't break though! Yay for small victories!) I see the shaft is bent. Good thing the gearbox with the broken gears had a perfectly fine shaft I could use for the next fight! Black Adder actually shaves off a good 1/4" around the outside of one of the 2" wheels. The announcer is loving this, exclaiming how Limblifter is still driving around on two wheels. I correct him by yelling "one and a half!". At some point the entire front nose gets broken off. Good lord, Kurtis. Thank God I don't keep my battery or power switch in there anymore. I did have much of my antenna there however, so it gets torn off. Now I have connection issues. There's one point where I'm either pushing directly against the drum, or he's got me on a wall but the result is a incredibly visible shower of white UHMW particles flying off my robot. I look at Kurtis and see his "unbridled glee" face. Now the match goes down as a KO only because after about 2 minutes of abuse I get knocked against the wall in a way I can't flip or drive away from. Because I have no flipper arm. Or the majority of my wheels. But in the video (uploaded soon, right Dirk?) you'll see the drive is still going! I take pride in that. And also I know that I likely have "robot that fell apart the most" prize on f'ing lockdown. Thankfully that was the last fight of the day, so I had a good long time to fix everything. Bash the lifting wedge back into shape, find the best of my remaining 2" wheels, ignore the front nose because it's such a pain to put that back on, but by the dawn of the 2nd day, Limblifter is back, baby. Too bad I lost that fight, I really wanted to go against Utopia, which was who the winner fought.

Limblifter vs Super Shooter McGavin

SSM is an invertable undercutter. I again wasn't too worried about the spinner. I don't remember what damage I suffered in the fight. What I remember is that I do take a couple of good hits, but I was attacking SSM a lot, got a few flips in I think, and a few near pushouts. I was really sure I lost the fight, so was a little surprised to hear I lost a split decision. Fair enough, I'll take it. Limblifter finishes tied for 5th place, and as Travis said, I proved that a good 6 year old bot can at least hang with the current gen. If I had won, I would get to fight Pinky and The Brain again (a likely win) and the Utopia. That Utopia fight just didn't want to happen, sadly.

My lifting wedge is taco'd so badly it's hard to get under people, so I have some fun somersaulting around instead of driving. I'm sure it looked cool. I know at one point Pinky drives/gets pushed square onto my wedge and I absolutely suplex the hell out of it. It'd be nice to fight 1lb robots all the time with Limblifter! As fate would have it, Black Adder and myself are the only ones left in the arena and still working. I don't get any revenge in, and lose another wheel, but Limblifter survives the rumble, which only Black Adder can also say. Since Black Adder won the tournament as well as the rumble, so I have no problem losing to a better robot.

I do win "robot that fell apart the most"  and get some mini-gorilla tape and gorilla glue, which is great because I needed both of those things, and will use them.

For the future, Limblifter needs a new frame. I like the look of the Kitbot beetle brick design. I'm not going to buy it because it's too large and heavy for what I need, but I can build one just like it that's more compact. As for the wedges, I need new ones, and they need to be modular. The current one is great for other wedges. For drums I think I need like a section of a pipe to act as both a wedge and to deflect drum hits. Maybe something that's just an UHMW block for other spinners to eat without causing real damage.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Kaldonis on September 26, 2015, 01:37:46 pm
I was judging the LL v Pinky/Brain fight and had the same question about how to score it when Pinky was knocked out. Kurtis suggested that it count as control instead of damage.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on September 27, 2015, 03:26:44 pm
"Unbridled glee face"  :)
We do need to figure out how to score knocking out a multibot.  Control makes the most sense to me, but it could also be looked at as damage.  Like if you pushed out the weaponed half, you've "destroyed" the weapon of the bot, no?
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Kaldonis on September 27, 2015, 08:56:54 pm
Control makes more sense than aggression if you look at the SPARC judging guidelines, specifically this paragraph:
The primary means of scoring points in this category (control) involves using elements of the robot or arena against the opponent in a manner that doesn’t directly involve the weapon system of the robot causing damage

However, it seems crazy to me that Pinky/Brain could win a JD in a match where Brain is pushed out. I would almost propose that a pushout count as both damage and control just to make it harder for the multibot to win a JD in this scenario. Given that in a 1v1 a pushout is an insta-win, it seems wrong that it only count towards 35% of the JD (6 out of 17 possible points).

If you think about it, it could almost even count towards aggression! If Brain is pushed out, that 74% of the bot that can't show any aggression for the remainder of the fight.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Travis7s on September 27, 2015, 11:29:27 pm
I agree that it would be difficult to win a decision when the "main" bot is pushed out/KO'd, unless perhaps it was dominating the fight and was eliminated near the very end, or drove itself out.

There are other confusing aspects about them. Can they counted out of a fight? Lets say Brain gets inverted and can't move, but then 30 seconds later he gets bumped back over again.

Obviously I'm biased here but I hate to see even more restrictions imposed on the multibots such as extra harsh judging. Historically multibots have always been at a major disadvantage, PATB is the only one in our club to ever have an ounce of success.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on September 28, 2015, 02:26:58 am
I don't think getting pushed out should change aggression.  The way I see it, a multibot's advantage is that it can still have constant aggression even if one bot spends the whole match running away, as long as the other is attacking.  Or they can trade off attacking.  Still constant.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 18, 2018, 10:44:22 pm
Even though we really don't use this forum anymore, I REALLY don't like using facebook for this, so let's do the Kilobots 40 recap here!

MangoMinute was a small speedy wedge I made in a few weekends out of robot stuff I had just sitting around. Used 16 year old escaps for drive, banebots 3-9 ESCs and two (mismatched) 3s cells to run on 6s. The BEC is rated for 24mA at 6S and the rxer seems to need about 22mA. It's fine! :) It used blue spring steel for a front wedge and had a big magnet in the front. I could get onto my wheel from any position on the robot just by driving, including the position where the wheels weren't touching the ground. The robot is so fast as to be nearly uncontrollable, and doesn't go in a straight line very well.

MangoMinute vs Metroid
Metroid is obviously a very good bot, and I think I was holding my own against it pretty well. From what I remember I could get under him, sort of, and was able to take a few hits without immediately exploding. Unfortunately, after one of the hits I see the power LED is out, and I get KOd. What happened was when I last charged the batteries I didn't take off the right panel due to laziness, and didn't connect the JST cables as securely as I could have. I figured one of those popped out, and sure enough that was the problem.

MangoMinute vs MegaLondon
I don't remember much here. Megalondon is a small Limblifter essentially, and I think Megalondon got me on top of him twice, and on the second one was able to take me to the pushout. 0-2, out of the tournament.

MangoMinute vs The Snip
I said I'd be willing to grudge anyone and meant it, but I was a little disappointed another ant wanted to fight. I'd have fought a beetle! The Snip has this cute little cutting disk, which I thought might make some nice sparks, or flip me over a few times. Turns out The Snip is a ferocious beast and literally cut chunks of of the hardened armor. Broke off a motor shaft too. At one point I was pinned against a wall while The Snip was grinding away at the 1/16" garolite that was only thing between the disk and a battery. It never got all the way through, and I tapped out once one hit had me land in the middle of the arena with wires sticking out. It was only the power LED (I never trimmed those wires) but I was getting worried about lipo fires if we kept going. Damn, The Snip has a scary weapon!

I tape a tire back on the broken wheel and crab walk during the rumble. I don't know who did it, and I haven't done a full teardown, but the working escap motor has separated from the gearbox inside the robot, so let's assume that motor is dead too.

Limblifter vs Mega Don G
Mega Don G has a bunch of long feeler fork wedges on for this fight, so I try to get to the side of him and hope for a lift and flip. I do get to his side, but when I try to lift him, stuff isn't working right. Is he using a lot of magnets? Am I breaking more gears inside my lifting motor? I somehow end up upside down with the lifting arm behind me, and it's certainly broken now, it won't move. This is a huge stroke of luck, because it broke in a position where if I assume the lifting arm tip is the front, everything drives like it should and I'm just a normal wedge. I get Mega Don G to a pushout, but drive both of us out. We reset, and I'm able to repeat the process but stay in the arena. Win by pushout. I replace the last stage of gears on the lifting gearbox.

Limblifter vs Reckoning
For the first time I have modular lifting arms. I'm able to easily remove arms and add other things, and not have them fall off under the first hit. I knew I needed something to deal with all the powerful drum bots infesting the brackets. I saw a few weeks ago the wolverine claws that botkits are selling. It's just a hardened S7 claw on a hinge, and $99. I can do cheaper than that! The simplest source of hardened metal I know of would be some random chisel at Canadian tire. All I have to do is attempt to drill two holes in that, fashion a hinge for it, and I'm good to go! It's not that difficult to drill into FYI. I started with a cobalt 1/8" bit, and worked up 1/32" (or even 1/64") at a time until I got to 1/4". For the fight I have my chisel on the front, and one lifting arm on the side.

For the first minute of the fight, things are going really well! The chisel's holding up and Reckoning is taking the worst of the collisions. For the wide drums like him, it's really easy to aim the chisel into the drum. Brandon tells me afterward that he was getting very nervous during the fight because things were going badly for him. I notice the lifting arm is broken again. I get upside down on top of Reckoning at some point. Normally I'd flip myself out of situations like that, but with no working arm, I have to drive off. This caused my KO. A wheel must have been on the drum, and gets shaved off to the point where it's under the frame. When I slide off Reckoning, a combination of drum damage, broken lifting arm and lack of a wheel prevent all the other wheels from touching the ground enough to prevent a KO, and I get counted out. The chisel sustained almost no damage. Brandon showed me the drum, and it got mangled. He said I did more damage to the drum than anyone else in the tournament (and he fought Utopia!) and gave me a mangled tooth as a trophy. We all learned a lesson here - drums hate it when you shove a chisel down their throat.

Limblifter vs Exercise Restraint
I stay with the chisel. The lifting arm gets broken again. The chisel front wedge was made hastily and was too low, but I fixed it so I was driving a little better this fight than against Reckoning. ER ate a little bit of chisel and then drove itself out the pushout. I knew it had been having technical problems, but I thought it all got fixed before our fight. I later learned they had some transmitter setting wrong, either the weapon wasn't at full power, or was at full power preventing them from driving right, something like that. I'll take a lucky win though!

Limblifter vs LowBlow
I had a plan for wedges, vertical spinners and drums. I had no plan for horizontal spinners, and now I have to fight one. LowBlow is very easy to get under, so I go for standard lifting arm setup. After the last two fights though, the lifting arm is so mangled that doesn't connect the way it should. I have to back out a bunch of screws to give the arm constant play so that it rotates the full 360. I was shocked this didn't bite me in the ass. During the fight I'm able to have the main front wedge take a hit or two without exploding, so I just kept going after his weapon. LowBlow gets on top of me a couple of times, blade just millimeters away from tires and the top panel and other squishy parts. The lifting arm kind of breaks again, so I stop using it. A fight like this isn't one you win, it's one you outlast, and let the opponent defeat himself. And that's what happened. LowBlow hits me or the wall or something and goes straight out the pushout. I do a victory dance and see the lifting arm still kind of works. I discover once the fight ends that I wasn't breathing, or something. The only other fight I've ever had which was more stressful was DMR vs Hellrazer at the Joe Dogs event.

One of the hits pushed a side panel into a tire. I fix it, but the motor it connects to feels weird. It's a lot harder to turn. It doesn't sound crunchy, and works fine when powered, so I just go with it. I have no replacement anyway. I replace the entire lifting gearbox this time with the only remaining one that works and hasn't been harvested for gears.

Limblifter vs Wilson
The Battle of Edmonton! Sadly the winner of this fight was LowBlow. The weird motor totally died in this fight, and since the sides are in parallel off one ESC, it disabled its mate. Wilson's drum is narrower and slower, so the chisel strat didn't work. I break the lifting gearbox again. Pierre was nice enough to keep attacking me to prevent a KO, but I obviously lose the decision.

I remove the bad gearbox, and the shaft of the lifting gearbox. So I'm just a three wheeled wedge. I obviously didn't do much the entire rumble, but I did absorb all the hits I needed to, and was one of the few (two?) left working at the end, along with Wilson who clearly won the rumble. Limblifter finished 3-2, in a tie for 5th place, and didn't put in an Angle Grinder of Doom worthy falling apart incident. A marked improvement over the 2015 event!

What went right
- 2.4GHz radio systems! I had zero radio issues, for the first time in what seems like forever.
-Snap hubs! I shoo goo the snap rings in place (something I do not see enough people doing) and had no problems. They worked better than my official and/or homemade Dave's hubs.
-Modular lifting arms made of 1/2" Al bar. This was the first event I didn't have an arm ripped off, or mangled so horribly there was no way it was going to work again. Some of the bars got bent a little, but that's fine. It used to be such an enormous pain in the ass to remove the arm I didn't want to do it ever. I did it after every fight here.
-Dear God the chisel. That is a winning idea we're going to see more of in the future.
-This is the first event where I feel like I don't need to rebuild the entire frame over from scratch! Unless I need a redesign, see below.

What went wrong
-I have no working lifting gearmotors, as Banebots doesn't make them anymore. Limblifter (and Papillion, lol) broke all five! I see Robotshop has some potential replacements maybe? That I'd have to make a new design around again, grrrr.
-I need more clearance between the side rails and the wheels. I wish 2024 wasn't so hard to find because that alone would help the problem. I'm sure the kitbots motor would have held up if it wasn't stalled. I need to buy some replacements, too.
-I could use better traction.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Travis7s on September 18, 2018, 11:46:18 pm
Mango Minute could have fought Dempsy Roll who was itching for a grudge!

Speaking of drilling chisels...what did you use to drill the blue steel? I've been using little carbide center drills to do the pilot, and once you have that it doesn't seem so bad. Also I have found that masonry bits with the carbide are cheap and pretty effective albeit not pretty.

Always good to see Limblifter, even though this one is new it still has that nostalgic feel to it. I'm thinking you almost need to indrectly drive the arm with a belt or chain these days with all the murderers in the beelte class.

What radio system are you using?

Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 19, 2018, 12:24:32 am
The secret to drill blue steel is to not drill it. I use this (

I'm using the cheapo radio system Kurtis sells. It has no features I'm used to, but it worked!
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Travis7s on September 19, 2018, 01:05:19 am
Nice, I had all my blue steel waterjet for this event anyways!

Ah yes, the T6A. Those worked amazing well for the price if you don't mind the lack of receiver options and on board programming. We even used them on Crash n Burn.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: FingerTech on September 19, 2018, 02:45:53 pm
Gluing the snap rings in place?  And that isn't a pain in the butt when you need to change a tire?

NightWing would have definitely fought MangoMinute.  We need a grudge sign-up sheet next time for people to see who is available!
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on September 19, 2018, 07:23:40 pm
I'm not gluing the snap rings exactly, I shoo goo them in. It's an adhesive/sealant. It's certainly possible to peel all that goo off and replace; I did it after the Reckoning fight and it only added about a minute to the process.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Travis7s on September 19, 2018, 09:03:41 pm
Probably the same thing as Shoe Goo but I used Goop II to mount my maxons in both Blue Steel and Troubleshooter and it is strong yet quite easy to remove.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: Mattiator on October 10, 2018, 07:24:13 pm
RE: The Limblifter/ER fight, I had forgotten to switch down to low-speed settings (had it cranked up for Treadnought earlier IIRC), so the drive was constantly tripping the failsafe on the ESCs whenever it tried to move. I also had a bad ESC on the left side (the label said it didn't have a tapbrake, dammit) so only one side was responding correctly. When you flipped me I saw I was rolling towards the pit, so instinctively I mashed backwards... which drove me straight in. Literally was the first time I'd actually had to drive one of my robots in upside-down. I'll get you next time.
Title: Re: Guava Fleet
Post by: GuavaMoment on August 20, 2019, 11:37:38 pm
Kilobots 43! Old Man Guava still prefers dead forums to facebook!

At the event I'm installing a new pulley on ORIGIN since it was having problems not spinning up, and melting wires in the process. Dirk comes over and tells me Limblifter fights LowBlow first, and ORIGIN fights Chaos Theory. I'm like 60% sure he's joking because of the history LL/LB had a year ago, and because out of all beetleweights that have ever existed, Chaos Theory would be like top 5 in robots I would least want to fight with ORIGIN. I was even trolling Dirk on facebook about him not having it ready to fight me in a sarcastic mocking tone.

Limblifter vs LowBlow
So for a fight like this there's not much point in trying to flip over LowBlow, as it would just hit you in pretty much the same place. The only real strategy is to drive straight at it, absorbing blows until someone breaks, or I can push him into a wall or pushout. Maybe try jamming the lifting arms into the weapon in the hope of hitting the belt? I didn't really want to test out the improved alloy aluminum arms this early in the competition, but I was ok testing the improved alloy aluminum front wedge! So I spend 2 minutes 57 seconds bashing my face into LowBlow's blade. He did not break himself, or fly out of the arena so there wasn't much I could do. A rear section of armor was ripped off and the wheel it was protecting fell off (set screw issue) but none of that was a real problem. On the final hit I die for some reason; I see the power LED is off. I look up at the clock and see 2:57 and enjoy the small victory that this fight wasn't a KO. Not much you can do if LowBlow is working. Loss by JD.

I'm not sure why exactly everything died since all I found inside was one unsoldered wire powering one half the drive. Maybe the power switch bolt vibrated out? For the first time this competition I was using loctite on all the screws I could and to be honest it did nothing. I had to re-torque all the bolts like I usually do after matches, and I still had one wheel fall off. Lowblow took apart pretty much everything yet damaged almost nothing fortunately. The main support holding the lifting motor gearbox did break in half which was permanently going to expose one wheel, but everything else was easily fixable. Nothing much was very bent, so small victory there.

ORIGIN vs Chaos Theory
This fight could have gone so badly. The only hope here was to get at Chaos Theory's right side and hope to slice off the belt before it does too much damage to me. His weapon has more reach so whatever I do, I needed to do it quick. While the weapon worked in testing, it does not start when the fight starts. In a panic I can only think to jam the stationary weapon into his belt. I see a belt come off after the first big hit. It looks like a very big long belt? That's not mine! The announcer proclaims that it's ORIGIN's belt and that my weapon won't be working anymore, and well, he's half right. On the first hit Chaos Theory hit my weapon pulley and belt, but had his come off first. Just from inertia the blade manages one more cut on the left side pod, but then his weapon stops spinning. So now what? Pushing match between the two least pushy bots ever? Chaos Theory wins the first push and jams my rear carbon fiber support under the big blue saw hazard. I was really worried I was going to be stuck there without the drive power to escape, but when Dirk let off I was able to drive out easily. A drive motor or one of its supports on Chaos Theory then falls off or something! This is now a winnable fight! Then the robot Gods smiled upon me - THE WEAPON SPINS UP! I had been trying every few seconds in the hope that something would happen and my prayers were answered. I see that the spinning weapon is aimed directly at his brushless weapon motor. Full power forward! Dirk taps out! Victory dance time! I literally can't remember the last time I made someone tap out, if ever. I made a nick on his weapon motor but didn't break it.

The only notable damage to me was on the first hit. With me aiming to try to hit his belt, it meant his weapon could hit my belt. About 80% of the belt was cut through and a little damage done to the pulley, but not enough to prevent it from working. I can't believe the weapon spun up with just that sliver of belt. I had to replace the stabilizer shaft that broke under the big blue saw, but I was prepared to do that a lot.

ORIGIN vs Reckoning
It's very comforting going into battle against Reckoning knowing I won't get totally destroyed. Match starts, and weapon doesn't spin up. Great. Reckoning beats me up for like a minute, getting some good tosses in. All power goes out and I'm KOd.

All that happened was the main power connector came loose. Whoops, easy fix! Also the battery was swollen to twice its size, so I throw that in the sandbox and write it off. The tires got a little chewed up but not enough that I'd want to replace them, and that's a major victory for the design of ORIGIN right there. The drive shafts all appeared to survive the beating too; I'm pretty sure I landed directly on one at one point. As for the weapon, it was like two hours later when I realized that the weapon shuddered like one of the three phases wasn't working? I check the ESC and yeah, one of the pads came unsoldered. I fix it and hook the ESC up to Limblifter's spare brushless motor gearbox, and find it only shudders and a little smoke comes out of the motor. I assume the ESC is no good anymore. I have some spare Chinese reversible 30A ESCs that never worked at all before, but maybe with the new pulley it'll work? I solder in the new ESC, go to the box and IT WORKS. IT SPINS BOTH WAYS. I had been using the stock Fingertech 20A ESC before which only spun one way. Perhaps there is hope!

Icky Mouse had been lost in a luggage fiasco and I was kinda hoping it would stay that way so I could fight Pardon My French. A robot that can't hit a target over 3", and has an exposed brushless motor and ESC on top. That would have been a fun fight. But Icky Mouse arrived, won, and gets to fight me next.

ORIGIN vs Icky Mouse
Icky Mouse is a scary drum spinner but I'm the perfect design to avoid getting damaged by it. The problem is his weapon spins faster than mine, and is harder than mine (S7 vs Ti). I will not win a traditional weapon on weapon hit. The only hope is to spin down and go for one giant interlocking hit. I'll go flying after hitting him spinning that way, but maybe he'll break first? It'll be cool either way. I forgot which stick direction was down though. Before the fight I test the stick, and no, that's traditional spinning. I move the stick the other way and it spins downward. Great! It's working. Travis tells me I did that with the other door still open. Sorry! I thought I saw David close it but he reopened it to test something, and I didn't see that.  So the fight starts - and the weapon doesn't spin up. Frustrating to say the least! What do I do now? I aim my dead weapon at him which makes some nice ping sounds. I don't know how this happened exactly, but a drive shaft broke and a wheel fell off. Unseen damage from the Reckoning fight maybe? Either way, that's a tap out, and the knowledge that I need to use metal shafts for drive in the future. A loss you learn from is a good one.

Limblifter vs Kelpie
Kelpie is a pneumatic flipper. Really cool accomplishment for a beetle, but I kind of think it won't be too effective. I know I can win the ground clearance game, and flip him over a bunch. I got this. I'm using the 30A reversible ESCs on the lifting motor, and boy do I wish it had a brake feature. It's much more difficult to get the arm exactly where I need it to be after a failed lift attempt. You're lucky if you have one second to position your lifting arm without getting pushed around, and with the current setup it can take more than that. And my arm isn't as fast as it used to be. What this means is that I have a hard time getting under Kelpie. He flips me once and I recover. He flips me again right beside the closed pushout, and I get a little too cocky with what happens next. I want to flip over in a way then when I'm righted, the arm faces forward. I can flip over the other way but then the arm needs to go 180 degrees more to face forward. I go for the former method, and almost somersault myself of out the arena. I'm in a precarious position I think I can fix, but Kelpie comes and tosses me out before I'm able to. Whoops! At least I'm good to go for the rumble. I do get stuck in the arena so badly Kurtis has to get in the arena to free me. My girlfriend takes a good picture of his butt.

I'm beside Pardon My French who I really, really want to flip over since I couldn't break him with ORIGIN. Then the plan was to go after Wilson since we have beef we need to settle. ;) I get under PMF and I'm pushing him around when Reckoning shows up out of nowhere and just nails me. I go flying out the pushout. First eliminated. That one hit bent my super alloy front wedge and like 80% ripped it out. Holy f$*%.

0-2 Limblifter is the worst I've ever done since debuting with it. I don't know where to go from here exactly. I though I had super tough armor and got wrecked twice. The lifter (which didn't break at least) is now too slow and uncontrollable. It might be time to retire it and try something new.

1-2 ORIGIN is coming back, but needs some work. New, more powerful weapon motor (which actually should save me like 10 grams), new customizable ESC, and metal drive shafts. I'm considering moving the whole weapon forward a few inches so I can hit things that don't fit between the wheels. I'm considering going down a 3D printing rabbit hole to print out the frame. I was really happy with the drive and the durability of the wheels, so I have a solid foundation to work from. Just need to get that weapon spinning! I also was voted Coolest Beetle and won some ESCs I could use in a 12lb bot. Not bad! I was hoping I could win either Coolest Beetle or Best Design. I voted The Butcher and Kelpie respectively, and I was pretty happy to hear that the other builders overwhelmingly also voted Kelpie as best design. I certainly underestimated Kelpie and was glad to see it win an award!